More rights gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">History is full of rights and wrongs...usually it depends on where you were born as to which side of the fence you fall on. I could give a rat's a$$ what Mohammad did that was good or bad..or nearly any other religious figure for that matter. It still doesn't make one set of people inherently evil because of their religion. </div></div>

As much as I like you, I must disagree with your statement here. You have to realize the level of allegiance one may have toward any set of belief tenets. Mohammed was a violent man, and to clearly understand today's situation, you have to realize that his followers adhere to the same dogma. These folks are sold out totally to him, so consequently, to understand them, you must understand the one who laid the foundation. Islamic fascists are inherently evil because they have embraced fully the teachings of an evil man. By the way, I believe we're all inherently evil, regardless of our religious leanings.

Facism in any form is evil...but I know too many muslims to say that Islam makes a person evil...that's an awfully broad brush you're painting with there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milk3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was a famous american general who said: "Kill them all, and let God sort them out" </div></div>
I personally like that saying but it will never be used with the hippie liberals we got in Washington </div></div>

Yes, the US should have killed everybody in Iraq....no wait, that was our goal- to SAVE Iraq, be hard to save them AND kill them. This is the reason I keep bringing up planning at what stage the war should be ended, before you start one. </div></div>
Did i ever say Iraq ? no . I was referring to future wars.If we had the Congress we had today during World War 2 we'd still be fighting Japan because the U.S wouldn't have the balls to drop those bombs and end the war

Truman made the decision to drop the bomb..not Congress..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milk3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuds</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milk3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was a famous american general who said: "Kill them all, and let God sort them out" </div></div>
I personally like that saying but it will never be used with the hippie liberals we got in Washington </div></div>

Yes, the US should have killed everybody in Iraq....no wait, that was our goal- to SAVE Iraq, be hard to save them AND kill them. This is the reason I keep bringing up planning at what stage the war should be ended, before you start one. </div></div>
Did i ever say Iraq ? no . I was referring to future wars.If we had the Congress we had today during World War 2 we'd still be fighting Japan because the U.S wouldn't have the balls to drop those bombs and end the war </div></div>
Sure...that is what we meant. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Facism in any form is evil...but I know too many muslims to say that Islam makes a person evil...that's an awfully broad brush you're painting with there. </div></div>

Islamic purists are evil - historically, there's no denying it. The religion was founded in violence. I've read enough of the Koran to understand their core dogma. Mohammed was a Jones/Koresh type.

But I will say that some adherents to the faith - those who aren't sold out completely to the dogma - may be decent folks. However, I unequivocally stand by this: Once an individual completely embraces Islam, then he becomes a dangerous person. The faith requires it of their true adherents. They accept the mantra of convert or die.

There used to be a lot of people that thought that about the Christians - Puritans. They were just as extreme, instead of grenades of today it was rope and you were killed, exiled etc. if you didn't embrace every single aspect. Or how about the KKK? Have always been and still do hide under the christian cloak. Christianity had a lot to do with violence and such, I know you have read a good deal of the Old Testament. If Christianity can evolve and shed it's violent past, those Islamic extremist can also.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There used to be a lot of people that thought that about the Christians - Puritans. They were just as extreme, instead of grenades of today it was rope and you were killed, exiled etc. if you didn't embrace every single aspect. Or how about the KKK? Have always been and still do hide under the christian cloak. Christianity had a lot to do with violence and such, I know you have read a good deal of the Old Testament. If Christianity can evolve and shed it's violent past, those Islamic extremist can also. </div></div>

You're right, but we're both referring to the extremists. Every religion has it's fringe element. I don't think it's a matter of evolving per se - if a religion can evolve, then obviously it was never founded on truth. Man's understanding and interpretation can evolve and change, but the crux of the religion, if valid, can never change. I'm merely looking at Islam in this thread, and the violence of the extremist Muslims is validated, even called for, in their core beliefs. Read it for yourself.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There used to be a lot of people that thought that about the Christians - Puritans. They were just as extreme, instead of grenades of today it was rope and you were killed, exiled etc. if you didn't embrace every single aspect. Or how about the KKK? Have always been and still do hide under the christian cloak. Christianity had a lot to do with violence and such, I know you have read a good deal of the Old Testament. If Christianity can evolve and shed it's violent past, those Islamic extremist can also. </div></div>
The difference is Jesus didn't commit mass murders, rape, molesting, exc. Christs are told to be kind,caring, loving,and accepting... the Koran tells followers to kill the "infedels" and/or no followers of Islam. Trying to compare the two is ridiculous

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boney</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There used to be a lot of people that thought that about the Christians - Puritans. They were just as extreme, instead of grenades of today it was rope and you were killed, exiled etc. if you didn't embrace every single aspect. Or how about the KKK? Have always been and still do hide under the christian cloak. Christianity had a lot to do with violence and such, I know you have read a good deal of the Old Testament. If Christianity can evolve and shed it's violent past, those Islamic extremist can also. </div></div>

You're right, but we're both referring to the extremists. Every religion has it's fringe element. I don't think it's a matter of evolving per se - if a religion can evolve, then obviously it was never founded on truth. Man's understanding and interpretation can evolve and change, but the crux of the religion, if valid, can never change. I'm merely looking at Islam in this thread, and the violence of the extremist Muslims is validated, even called for, in their core beliefs. Read it for yourself. </div></div>

They can evolve undoubtedly and still hold their core beliefs with their religion. Christianity did so, thousands and thousands were driven away here in America and new churches sprung up in the 1600's. Puritans came over here for freedom of religious persecution, not by muslims. And once here, they began to do the same thing that they had fled from in England - persecution. The Catholic church was and still continues to be a very corrupt core of a massive religion, same with a lot of Christian churches here with hypocritical pastors and members for that matter.

IMO churches are the major problem in any religion, drive more people away then they take in.